How Do I Stop Being Misunderstood? (Coaching Session)

Joe: Hey everybody, it's Joe Hudson and welcome to The Art of Accomplishment, where we explore living the life you want with enjoyment and ease and today we have a very special episode. I did a coaching session with a woman and it just was really impactful. It was all about not feeling heard and listening and really helping her find out what it is that is preventing her from really feeling heard in her work and in her life. And it relates so much to the last episode we did on an on week, not one of our off week episodes. And so it just was really important and unfortunately I screwed up, I pressed some wrong buttons and I messed up the microphone and so the sound quality is really poor. And normally we would never release something with bad sound quality because we just want to treat the audience with more care than that. And so we would rerecord it. But unfortunately we can't rerecord this. There's no way. This is a once in a lifetime thing and we thought it was so special that we are releasing it with poor sound quality.

So if you're an audiophile, apologies it's gonna be a little bit painful and just understand it was something that we didn't want to do as far as sound quality, but we thought it was so important and special that we are gonna release this thing anyhow. Okay. So enjoy, and I hope you get a lot out of it.

Hi. 

Savannah: Hey, how you doing? 

Joe: So what's up? I know nothing except for your name. 

Savannah: Yeah. So my name is Savannah and what I was hoping to talk about today is I would like to do better with feeling misunderstood. So when I make all attempts and use the best communication hygiene I possibly can and the other party seems determined to take different meaning than what I'm giving.

I struggle a lot with that in many areas of my life, whether that's professionally, in my relationship, in interpersonal relationships. So I think that's what I would like to talk through today. 

Joe: Yeah. The first question that comes to mind is, what's the problem with being misunderstood?

Savannah: I tend to fall all over myself to try to correct that misunderstanding because I. If I'm trying to communicate with someone, it's because I want them to understand what I'm saying. So if I am making every effort to communicate with someone, and that's not happening, then that's a huge problem for me and I feel a lot of distress around that. 

Joe: So what if, okay, somebody doesn't understand you and you don't fall over yourself to try to get them to understand you? What would happen then for you? 

Savannah: A whole lot of anxiety, like building myself into a panic room of concrete blocks of anxiety.

Joe: Okay. And then if you fall all over yourself and they don't understand you, my guess is that the more you fall over yourself, the harder it is to understand you. It's typically how it works. So if you fall all over yourself and then they don't understand you what's the difference there? 

Savannah: If I'm falling all over myself, I'm at least still trying. So that still gives me the illusion of control or a sense of being able to impact the situation outside of okay, I shot my shot and it missed, and guess it's time to go do something else. That feels terrible when I'm interacting with someone that I care about or there's an outcome that I'm trying to reach. I wanna feel like there's always something I can still do. 

Joe: What makes it your job to be understood? What makes it not my job to try to understand you? 

Savannah: I feel like it's my job to make sure that I'm expressing myself in a way that's clear. And it's my job to make sure that when I'm trying to communicate with someone, I'm doing so in a way.

Joe: Clear to who? 

Savannah: To who specifically? Whether that would be, 

Joe: Communicate something in a way that's clear to 20% of the people, unclear to 80% of the people. I might say the exact same thing in a slightly different way and then it's clear to 30% of the people, but not 70% of the people. Who are you supposed to?

Savannah: If I'm having a conversation and this is an interpersonal interaction, I would like to be clear with the other person I'm having that conversation with. If I am in a professional setting and I'm a go ahead 

Joe: How much control do you have over that? 

Savannah: I like to think I have a lot of control over it. I can choose my words. I can choose my tone. But I, 

Joe: yeah you clearly don't though, right? 

Savannah: Yeah, but I hate that. 

Joe: Yeah. Fucking a right, but if we're just facing reality what's the reality? Like, how much control do you have over somebody understanding you, right? They might face you in their prejudice because you're wearing a green shirt or because you have glasses on, or because you're a woman or because of the color of makeup you have, and they're just never gonna be able to hear anything you fucking have to say.

That's a possibility. The other possibility is that your body processor, and they're a head processor and so you speak from your body and they speak from their head and there's just no way that thing's gonna happen. It also might be that they don't wanna understand you, that's inconvenient for them and their truth, and so they're just like, yeah, for instance, right now somebody is listening to this podcast and they're like, I can't understand what the fuck Joe is saying that is happening in and if we look at it just with reality, what is the reality? How much control do you actually have over people's capacity to understand you? 

Savannah: I guess I have no control over other people's capacity for anything, let alone to understand me. But I feel like there are aspects of the interaction that I can control. And when I control all of those variables that I can, and I still get no part of any understanding, it's what the fuck. 

Joe: Okay, so let's just assume I had no idea what you just said. I don't fucking understand at all the thing that you just said. I want you to make it my responsibility to understand you. How would you do that? 

Savannah: Okay. So if you are in a situation and you are trying to express something and the other person doesn't seem to be picking up on that, how would that make you feel? 

Joe: Okay. How much of that was you taking responsibility for me understanding and how much of that was you taking responsibility for my understanding?

Savannah: I guess probably all of it. 'cause I was trying to be like a guide to get you to get to where we wanna be. 

Joe: Yeah, great. Now let's try it with, it's you're totally putting the responsibility of understanding on me. 

Savannah: Okay. 

Joe: Look at me in the eyes, think to yourself, this dude is a fucking professional coach. He should absolutely fucking understand me. And if he can't, that's his fucking problem. Think that and then what do you say? 

Savannah: Yeah. So I'm communicating with you in a way that is clear even and with very specific words. I'm hoping that as an intelligent human being, you are listening with open ears and can at least grok some of my meaning.

Joe: Yeah. That's like not, that's almost say it's almost defensive when I, yeah. So without defense, just this is your responsibility. How do you do that? 

Savannah: I can't that's why I'm here. So I'm a pendulum. I'm like, either I'm gonna guide you or I'm gonna figure out, you better freaking understand man and that's not effective. 

Joe: Yeah. So what is it that I'm saying right now that doesn't make sense to you? 

Savannah: Nothing that you're saying doesn't make sense. I just don't want to think that there's nothing I can do to force people to understand what I'm saying. 

Joe: Yeah. So I just made you fully responsible for understanding me.

Savannah: Do it again. 

Joe: Okay. What is it that you're not understanding about what I'm saying? And now notice what got revealed when you said it the first time. When you didn't know the experiment was happening, what you said was nothing, I just don't want to believe this thing. Which is probably the case with most of the people when you're trying to explain something to them.

So they're not receiving it as you don't understand me. They're receiving it as, I don't wanna believe you. I don't wanna be convinced, I don't want to be controlled, and the more you try to control the more they feel controlled, the more you're just trying to control that they understand you. They're just feeling it as someone's trying to control me, fuck off.

Savannah: Yeah. So I look at it as I'm trying to make sure the table is fully set for us to have this engaging, communicative experience and,

Joe: yes. 

Savannah: You are trying to keep me from putting your freaking silverware on the table right now and all I wanna do is put the silverware on the fucking table. 

Joe: Yeah, intellectually that's where you are. The way it's being received is someone's trying to control me and when someone's trying to control you, how do you respond? 

Savannah: I hate that. 

Joe: Yeah, do you listen better?

Savannah: I listen differently. When someone's trying to control me, I listen differently. I listen in ways to figure out what they're actually trying to get, rather than what is actually happening. 

Joe: Great. So now go to the last big time when you felt really misunderstood. Put yourself in the other person's position and tell me how they were listening to you.

Savannah: They were listening to me in a really defensive way, in a way that was a lot more focused on protecting their ego than coming to a collaborative understanding. 

Joe: Yeah and how is it that you're not protecting your ego by needing to be understood? How is that not also protection of the ego, if at all? 

Savannah: So the short answer is, of course, it's protecting my ego, but the long answer is, in order to interact as a fully like present, embodied human being, my ego is present as well. It's part of me. I can't just exist without that. For me, I feel like to have a direction and like a coherency to know what I'm saying is it ego to make sure that is, 

Joe: We're talking about, we're not saying drop ego. 

Savannah: Okay. 

Joe: We talked about protecting your words were protecting ego. 

Savannah: Protecting, yeah. Okay. 

Joe: Their ego, you needing to be heard is 

Savannah: protecting my ego. Yeah. 

Joe: If you allow your ego, but don't protect it, what would you say? You notice that somebody's not rocking you, not understanding you. You're like, oh, I don't need to protect my ego. What do you say? 

Savannah: I don't think it ever occurred to me that I was protecting my ego in these situations. Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. I'm also noticing that when I ask you a couple questions, you'll go into your head for a minute, but you process a crap ton through your body from what I see.

So let's actually try that. So I'm gonna ask you the same question, and then I want you to, instead of going to your head, go into your whole body for the answer. And the question is how you notice somebody isn't understanding you and you're like, oh, I refuse to protect my ego and I can't deny this person doesn't understand what I'm saying. What's your, what do you say in that situation if you're outta your head body. Whole body. Whole body. 

Savannah: Yeah. Okay. So what are you getting from what I'm saying? 

Joe: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. 

Savannah: Seems like a really open-ended way to approach that 'cause ultimately what I wanna do is get past egos on both sides and get to where we can both get to the stuff. 

Joe: Yeah. I see. What I notice is there's almost two levels of hurt when someone doesn't understand you, the first level of hurt is that you don't feel understood.

The second level of hurt is like I would say that you don't feel like the goodness in which you bring is being recognized. 

Savannah: Bro, how can you see me like that? That's exactly right. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Savannah: I'm coming into this with truly good intentions, with seeking understanding and communication and connection. Really. Oh my God, that's what it is. I'm seeking connection and when people are choosing to misunderstand me, it's like they're saying, no, we're not. They are saying, yeah I'm not connecting with you, and that hurts. 

Joe: Or they're saying, I don't feel safe enough to connect right now. 

Savannah: Ooh. But how can I create, okay. It's not my job to create a feeling of safety for them, but also at the same time, if I am working towards something where it's not just about how I feel, it's about how they feel. Like I wanna make sure someone feels safe when we're communicating, even in, especially if it's about a difficult topic.

Joe: Yeah. 

Savannah: How do I do that without, 

Joe: how did you just do it? You just did it. 

Savannah: Stop. 

Joe: How do I set up a situation where we can both feel safe communicating about this sensitive topic? 

Savannah: Okay, so interestingly, in this situation, I have in my mind.

Joe: That was a major, you just like speed bumped something really, like you were like, oh my God, I like and then you saw it and then you went, 

Savannah: So Go ahead. Sorry. 

Joe: Yeah. So just to point this out, if I'm talking to you and I don't see you fully digest what I'm saying, I'm probably not gonna feel so safe. I don't, me as a person, I don't care. But most people are gonna feel like, oh, she just bowled right over that thing. That was my main big point that I wanted to feel heard. I don't feel heard, I don't feel safe. What made you not digest that moment completely? 

Savannah: It reminded me of a moment that like fits this exactly in which I tried to come at it in that way by saying, hey, what can we do to make sure we both feel heard here?

Joe: Okay, say that same thing to me four times. And each time you do it, I want you to do it from a different place in your head. One, protecting your ego, one not protecting your ego. One with vulnerability and one with a big piece of armor in front of you. 

Savannah: Okay, let's start with the armor and then slowly take things off.

So armor would be like, I'm talking to you. Do you? What? Why aren't you hearing what I'm saying? 

Joe: Same exact words.

Savannah: Exact words? Oh, okay. Okay. So armor, what can I do to make sure that we both feel like we can be heard right now? 

Joe: Great. 

Savannah: And then I guess a little bit of vulnerability would be like, 

Joe: no, a shit ton of vulnerability.

Savannah: Okay. Okay then I'm gonna do the ego ones first 'cause I gotta go with descending. Protecting my ego would be like what can I do to make sure that we both feel heard in this situation? 

Joe: Yeah. That's great. Both of those two make my skin wanna crawl. I'm bugging out the door. 

Savannah: Yeah. Put on my best HR lady hat for those.

So then not protecting my ego would be like, what can we do to make sure that we both feel heard in this situation? There's just the desperation coming through and then I guess just full vulnerability would be like what can I do to make sure that we both feel heard in this situation?

Joe: Yeah. I want you to try one more, which is just, I want you to be like fully upright in yourself. And know it's not your responsibility. And say it from that place. No ego, no defense.

Savannah: What can we do to make sure that we both feel heard in this situation? 

Joe: So those five ways are gonna get you five different responses. And you can listen to this afterwards, but you could probably map how much you're chasing from my understanding, and how much I'm backing the fuck away. Yeah, because this weird thing, you wanna be understood, but the more you chase it, the less it happens. That's 

Savannah: algorithm bullshit.

Joe: Total golden algorithm bullshit, right? That's the first bit. And then, but there's another thing which is like, how deeply are you listening to yourself? 

Savannah: So I have a tendency to fully abandon myself when I'm interacting with someone else. Because I want them to... 

Joe: Great. Say that to me again and listen to yourself just 10% more.

Same thing, just but listen to yourself 10% more as you're saying. 

Savannah: Which thing? The thing I just said about having tendency. Yeah. Okay. 

Joe: Actually, I don't give a shit what you say. You can just say 10% more. Yeah. 

Savannah: I have a tendency to fully abandon myself when I'm trying to interact or make sure that I'm understood in communication.

Joe: Yeah. So even if they're not listening to your words, if they're just deeply empathetic people, they're also gonna be abandoning you when you're speaking. If I'm really empathetic and somebody's scared, i'm gonna start getting scared. That is not required if you're empathetic. But most people, when they're empathetic, someone's scared, I'm scared someone gets angry. You know what I mean? There's some way, like someone goes, you're doing something wrong. They go, oh, I'm doing something wrong. They take on the thing. So deeply empathetic people are gonna be taking on this abandonment of you? 'cause it's what you're doing. 

Savannah: I think I struggled to stay with myself in a way that is not protecting my ego.

Joe: You didn't struggle all you did was listen to yourself 10% more. It looked like there was no struggle. Just so tell me, if you just listen to yourself 10% more, tell me how much of a struggle it's like for tell me about, your favorite thing in the world, but just listen to yourself 10% more while you're doing it.

Savannah: My very favorite thing in the world is teaching people how to swim. I love to work with kids and adults, especially if they're afraid of the water. 

Joe: How hard was that? 

Savannah: Not hard at all. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Savannah: But that was easy 'cause it's a topic that I like and I care about, so it's easy for me to not abandon myself in that. Ask me about, how I,

Joe: What makes you talk about things you don't care about. 

Savannah: Oh capitalism, my job forces me to do that all the time. But also, not, I don't share a brain with everyone I interact with. Sometimes they're gonna wanna talk about things that aren't interesting to me or I don't care about, or maybe, 

Joe: but then you just 

Savannah: No, I care about them, so I'm gonna have the conversation. 

Joe: Listening is part of the conversation, yeah? 

Savannah: Oh yeah and I guess if I'm part of the conversation, then I should listen to myself too. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Savannah: Seems fake. I don't know.

Joe: You want other people to listen to you when you're not listening to yourself. 

Savannah: I feel like I'm in my head so much that I already know what I'm saying. I already know what I'm trying to get across, so I'm more attuned to how other people, 

Joe: You just don't know how you're doing it. 

Savannah: Yeah. I guess. 

Joe: It's the listening.

When we just did that experiment of five things and you're like, I've done exactly that before, but how you're doing it is the important piece in communication, it's everything. If I was doing this conversation with you and I was like, we would be having a very different fucking conversation. 

Savannah: Yeah, that's true. 

Joe: The state of mind is the best determinant of how we're gonna be listened to. 

Savannah: Yeah, and also like how I'm expressing myself. 'cause I can think that I'm expressing myself one way, and if I am in a completely different state of mind and not in tune with that, then i'm coming off really different than how I think I am. 

Joe: Correct. And I'll just say, that if you start trying to figure out how you come across, then it can go really sideways really quick. If you just listen to yourself, it all just works out, right? So if you start strategizing about how to talk in a way that somebody will listen, the emotional content of your conversation is I am trying to control you. If you listen to yourself while you're talking, the emotional content is I am listening. I am here with you. I'm present with you, which makes people feel safe. It also turns out to make you feel safe because as you listen to yourself, you start speaking from safety.

Savannah: Interesting. So that makes a lot of sense. But I'm wondering how this ties into written communication. So how can I make sure that in written communication, like for instance say I might be having a disagreement with people that are related to me in another state and they will not take my phone calls. They will not engage in any other way except for by writing. Like that it's really hard for me to cope with being misunderstood in writing. Like the meaning is right fucking there. You are looking at words and taking something that is not written, that's how, and like my body language isn't a factor, my tone, I guess my tone could still be a factor, but

Joe: yeah, writing's a trick. But the thing is the same. Like how deeply are you listening to yourself when you're even contemplating writing to them? How much are you listening to yourself when you even decide if you want to write to them or want to be heard by them? How much are you listening to yourself while you're writing it? How much, when you're writing it, are you like, oh, I'm gonna say it this way and this way so that I can get this kind of, or that kind of a response. It's the same principle. 

Savannah: In the instance that I'm think, go ahead. 

Joe: Nobody can make you feel listened to, but you.

Savannah: I don't like that, is the problem. 

Joe: Right? Yeah, it sucks.

Savannah: I think that I have this secret belief that,

Joe: Lemme ask you a question. Think about a politician and a famous one, any famous politician and how much are people listening to them, getting them, understanding them?

Savannah: They're not, but like politics is all strategy because it's all about the tone or what you're wearing or like where people happen to see you speak. So it's all about the external stuff and almost nothing about the content. 

Joe: Yeah. And all of our politicians are hated more and more than ever. That's the result of the strategy. 

Savannah: Would you say that nonviolent communication is like a strategy in that way?

Joe: It can be taken as a strategy, for sure. It doesn't have to be. Nonviolent communication is quite lovely, but I've seen people use it as a strategy for sure. And then it immediately stops working when they use it as a strategy, it immediately stops working. When it's a state of mind and a vulnerability, it's like when we're teaching our view course, which is all about communication, we're like our strategy, our technique part of it is like two sentences because it's all about the state of mind.

Savannah: Interesting.

Joe: But there's something just a little bit deeper that I wanna see if we can touch on, which is, what would be required for you? What would you have to see, understand fully? What would you have to hear fully so that it would be impossible for you to chase people to listen to you ever again?

Savannah: So I guess from someone whose opinion that I valued, it would be helpful to hear. Wow. You communicate so clearly you know exactly what you're trying to say and you express it in a way that someone has to intentionally work to misunderstand you. If someone said that and I valued their opinion enough, I'd be like, everyone else can fuck off infinity. This is it. 

Joe: Yeah. I have not had any problem understanding you. To the point that you said, bro, how do you see me like that? 

Savannah: That's true. 

Joe: Yeah. I don't know if you respect me, but 

Savannah: I do. I do. And it that is, that's helpful. 

Joe: I don't think anybody on this podcast anyway, let's I'm sure there's somebody, but very few people on the podcast listening would not understand what's happening.

They might not want to hear it, they might not wanna listen, but they they get you're saying, and they got annoyed. They were more likely to be annoyed when you weren't listening to yourself.

Savannah: It's weird that other people could pick up on that before I can, but I'm sure that's totally the case. 

Joe: Absolutely. Yeah, same. You can pick, usually pick up on it people before they can. As a matter of fact, when you feel unlistened to, it's probably a really good signal that they're not listening to themselves.

Savannah: So I'm like running through this scenario in my head, the one that like all of this is around, and each time you say something I'm like, oh, let's put it through that filter. So now beyond communicating, like how can, like if I'm communicating in a clear way, what can I do to help people if they're not, if they don't wanna understand me. How like it's not, I guess my question was gonna be how can I make what I say palatable for them? But it's not my job to do that, so 

Joe: Correct. 

Savannah: How can I communicate? 

Joe: What makes you not wanna understand me? 

Savannah: Oh yeah. But that feels almost like an accusation. 

Joe: Okay. What makes you not understand me? Or how's this conversation going for you right now? Or how would you want, how can I communicate with you in a way that that you might like that would be better for you, the way that you operate.

But I don't really, I don't think really any of it's necessary. The obsession is still the same. You're trying to figure out them and the control rather than figure out how to listen to yourself. So even in that moment, ask that question, but listen to yourself fully, see if you can even ask it.

Savannah: Yeah. How can I communicate this in a way that feels good to both of us? That like when I tuned back into myself, that was what came out. 

Joe: Yeah. But you were like, you were in yourself and then you literally, you went, what? That doesn't make sense. So wait until it makes sense. If you're really listening to yourself, what's the question? If there is one? 

Savannah: Yeah. So the real question is how can we resolve this with us both having such different feelings? That beyond everything is the question. 

Joe: Yeah. Look at that. 

Savannah: Makes me wanna cry. 

Joe: Yeah. That's all that's required is you listening to yourself. 

Savannah: I want to believe that. 

Joe: You've stopped listening to yourself. 

Savannah: I, for the parts that I can control, I believe that. But I don't, 

Joe: Wait. Hold on. Still listen to yourself. I'm happy to have the conversation with you, but I'm gonna call you out when you, like, when you run out and try to manage the world and you're not in yourself.

So whatever you wanna say from the place of being in yourself, because now I'm with you. You can't, by the way, you can't fucking be seen or heard when you're not in yourself. How could I ever see, you're not you're running away from yourself to manage me. I can't, how could I see you in that? It's impossible. 

Savannah: Yeah. It's not me. 

Joe: Yeah. It is scary. It's fucking scary. No way around that. To fully listen to yourself is a scary thing. 

Savannah: You would think it wouldn't be 'cause I feel like I know myself pretty damn well. 

Joe: You think you would think? Yeah. Not the case. 

Savannah: It honestly it's interesting because it makes me think about when I'm afraid to ask for something from someone that I care about, turns out I'm even afraid to listen to my own self to see what I even need. 

Joe: Yeah. That's right. That's right. The deeper thing which you can't go into today, but this is in, this is the answer to that, is that you think your, you got taught sometime in the early time that your happiness was dependent on other people's reactions, and the person whose reaction you thought your happiness was dependent on was having reactions for reasons that were completely not about you, whether it's like alcohol or mental illness or blood sugar or, there was some something that was, and you weren't in control of it. And so your whole lesson in life when you were young was, how do I find my happiness by trying to make them happy and, I can't really make them happy. That's the deeper thing that's happening. Yeah. And the answer to all of it is, how do I listen to myself? 

Savannah: Seems fake that it's so simple. 

Joe: Yep.

Savannah: Yeah. How do I listen to myself? 

Joe: You've just changed it. Better is just a way to please. It's just maybe it's not even, how do I listen to it? It's just oh, I'm listening. Or how do I listen now? 

Savannah: I just got like a Frazier crane in my head. I'm listening. That's what I gotta be my own Frasier crane.

Joe: Yeah, that's right. 

Savannah: Okay. You know what? That's actually easier to imagine in my head than like my own self listening. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna be my own Frazier crane. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Savannah: In the best way, not in a shitty way.

Joe: Also, the other thing is you could receive my listening. 

Savannah: That's true. 

Joe: Everybody who's responding to you is listening to you on some level. You don't choose to see that part. You choose to see the part in which they don't see you or don't hear you. Like right now, I know it's a weird thing to say, but just try it out right now. Focus on my listening to you. 

Savannah: Okay. 

Joe: You notice how it feels a lot like listening to yourself, like there's a quality to it, expansive, slows things down a little bit. Awareness becomes more front and center. 

Savannah: Yeah. There's not like an outcome in mind. It's just like you pay attention to the details more.

Joe: That's right. Yeah. One of the things when we teach is to let go of outcomes. We call it impartiality, but it is to let go of the outcomes and that usually makes for much better outcomes as it oddly turns out. 

Savannah: Yeah. Interesting. 

Joe: So what makes it that you can't let this be easy? It's just like this one little it simple thing. Listen to myself, which makes life more enjoyable every moment I do it. What makes it not, what makes you not allow it to be that easy? 

Savannah: Oh. 

Joe: And what makes you not listen to the fact that your body already knows it's that easy? 

Savannah: My brain has spent like 33 years tying knots around itself and like figuring out ways to exist and listening to myself was never one of those ways.

Joe: Then let's do something cool. Let's do something real quick. I want your listening to speak to your brain. What does it have to say? I know it's a weird one, but just put your attention on your listening. Listen to yourself, put your attention on that, and then let that speak to your brain. 

Savannah: Bro, my listening is exasperated, turns out. Just a brief check-in lets me know that my listening is exasperated with my brain. Brain goes all the time, zoomy, and I can't help but think that's part of why I can't listen to myself. There's so much. I am neurodivergent so heavy on the A DHD so I'm constantly making connections, having like half imagined metaphors in my head. I feel like listening to myself would be exhausting. Is that why people can't understand me? Am I exhausting? 

Joe: Little bit. Little bit. 

Savannah: Okay. Alright. Good to know. 

Okay. We're gonna integrate that and feel fine about it. 

Joe: I am too. I don't have a problem. Yeah. 

Savannah: That makes sense. 

Joe: Yeah. It just happened. Did you see that? It just all happened really naturally?

You just, without even trying, without even the thought, I need to listen to myself. You just naturally tuned in. Checked in with yourself, felt yourself.

Yeah. You didn't even have to remind yourself to do it. It just happened. You got a taste of it and less than five minutes again, your body knew what to do and did it. 

Savannah: That's so interesting and weird. Being a human is weird. 

Joe: Tell me. 

Savannah: Piloting a meat suit, there's so many different parts. No one gave me the manual for this.

Joe: Anytime you're feeling unheard and generally in any time, just listen to yourself. Just spend a couple moments listening. Pretty soon it just becomes a way of life. 

Savannah: Do you think that journaling at the end of each day is a great way to ritualize listening to yourself? 

Joe: Yeah. That's great. That's a great way. And also just listening to yourself if you wanna hack, there's just a, there's a simple hack, which is right now, while we're sitting here, just put your attention in your inner ear. So all you have to do is put your attention in your inner ear. I'll talk, and that, that's it. That's all you have to do. Super easy. 

Savannah: Seems fake. I like to make things very complicated and I don't trust when they're simple. 

Joe: Yeah. Yeah. And that also makes it hard to listen to you. Makes it hard for you to listen to yourself, which is all the same thing. You just did it, look at that boom. 

Savannah: That's interesting. And when I like tune into myself, I feel so sometimes when I feel anxious, I get a lot of tension in my chest. And even when I don't feel anxious, it's not that I feel the tension, but when I tune into myself and I'm conscious of it, it's like I feel like my chest is floating.

Joe: Yeah. 

Savannah: It's not even just like the absence of tension. It's like helium. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Savannah: Wow. 

Joe: Yeah. That simple. Yeah. 

Savannah: People can just feel like this.

Joe: Yeah. Yeah. That's my reality. 

Savannah: Wow. Wow, man. That's cool. I like, I'm like digesting it all.

Joe: Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

Savannah: Thanks so much. 

Joe: What a pleasure. 

Brett: Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please subscribe and rate us on your podcast app. We'd love your feedback, so feel free to send us questions or comments. You can reach out to us, join our newsletter, or check out our courses at artofaccomplishment.com.