What Joe Got Right (and Wrong) in Parenting… According to His Daughter

Joe: So I know you don't listen to the podcast, but one of the things that happens on the podcast a lot is I talk about raising you and Esme. And so I thought it'd be super interesting to see how incorrect I am about all the things I say about raising you, and to find out what it's like from your perspective to be raised by your mom and I.

Oona: I'm happy to help. 

Joe: Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So let's jump into it. If you were to describe how we raised you in five words what would be the five words you'd pick? 

Oona: Loving, caring, connected, boundaried and like, I don't know if it's a word, but like you would never say Like, "I'm so proud of you," you would say, "How do you feel?" Like built to be autonomous or, like, independent, I guess. I don't know if there's a word for that, but. 

Joe: Yeah. I don't have a word for it either, but that was actually more your mom than it was me. Like, I remember when she first told me this theory of, "Don't tell them they're doing a good job. Just point them back to themselves," and I was like, "What? That's ridiculous," 'cause I always wanted to be told that I did a good job. But I think, well, obviously she was really right, for me, from my perspective. I'm curious about your perspective. From my perspective, you learning to listen to yourself is more important than what I think of you. But how was that? Is that good? Was that good for you or was that, like, horrible that you, I could see pros and cons. 

Oona: I think there are pros and cons. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: I think it made it so that for me, like, I like to accomplish a lot 'cause I wanna be proud of me, you know?

Joe: Yeah, yeah. 

Oona: And I think everyone wants to be heard that someone else is proud of, but I never felt like you guys weren't proud of me. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: So I don't actually know if I see a con yet, but I'll think about it. I'll get back to you. 

Joe: Yeah. Well, I am really proud of you. So do you have a fifth one or that's it? If you don't need to, 

Oona: That's it. No. Okay. My fifth one, I'd say just warm. Our house is always warm.

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: I think also your mom on that one, too.

Oona: Yeah, she might,

Joe: She's a little warmer than I am. 

Oona: It might be her. 

Joe: Yeah, totally. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. So that sounds good. Like, obviously people listening are like, "Oh, that's good," but I know it's not all been good and it hasn't been all been bad. What, in your idea, what was some of the best things about being raised, and then I wanna ask you about some of the worst things about being raised by us. 

Oona: I really know how to listen to myself. Just being able to tell, I guess, who I am. Like, I think that's probably one of, like, the top things that's come out of how you guys raised me.

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: Also, like a deep, a love for everybody. You always said, like, "I love everybody. I don't like everybody." 

Joe: You just gave away my secret. 

Oona: Sorry. But I think I really resonate with that. Like, and Mom, she always... And it drove me crazy, and it still does a little bit. Like, whenever I'd have a conflict, she, she was the mom that was like, "Well, this is their side of the story." Like, but I think it does help in the long term.

Joe: Yeah. Totally. And then worst things? What are the worst things about being raised by us? What were the, what didn't work out, or what was bad? I know it's my, I'm like, "Oh. Uh-oh." 

Oona: I'm gonna tell you everything you did wrong. I think something that me and Esme both, and we've talked about it, and we, we both see it, is, like, we lack the connection that we got from you guys and from the people you worked with, like, our friends.

And I don't know if I want that connection all the time, but, like, just being deeply seen in that way, and then not being able to connect with your peers on that level can suck sometimes, I guess. 

Joe: Yeah 

Oona: But that's not like, like I still have, like I get to connect in that way. So I'd much rather know what I'm missing versus not have it in the first place. For me you and mom are like, are just normal people, you know?

Joe: Yeah 

Oona: And you're people, so there's like, you guys get angry, you get sad, you have all the emotions, right? And then like, we'll be at like places where people who like watch your podcast are or whatever, and they, they like look at you as if you're like perfect people. Like, what the freak? Like they're my parents. And I feel this, like there's two things when I meet people, when I meet people that, from like your guys' world, like not like people who are in your business, but people who watch you and stuff, like either they wanna know, like, what's special about me from being raised by you guys, or like, what's, like, what's wrong with me from being raised by you guys. Or they wanna know, like, details about you guys, that just like... I don't know. It's really interesting. I don't like it, but yeah. 

Joe: Yeah, I know, yeah. 

Oona: Yeah. Or they wanna coach me. That one sucks. 'Cause I don't like it when you guys coach me. So, yeah. 

Joe: We really try not to, but yeah. It, it slips sometimes. So what's the difference between the community people, like, the people who are deep in our world and have worked with us, how is it to have that community of folks around you?

Oona: It's so cool. 

Joe: Yeah? 

Oona: They are people I can... I know I'm seen by and I can connect. And some of them try and coach me, too, and then I have to be like, "No." But, but it's it's like a bunch... it's like a bigger family, you know? It's just having, like, a bunch of aunties and uncles around. With the people who are, like, get really close to our family, I think the hardest part for me, actually, has been like, because like a community, like, people leave, people come, you know?

And then getting really attached and really close with people who end up, like, leaving. I think they feel like family, and nothing bad happens, just like, yeah, I think. And especially when that happened when I was really young, I didn't know what was going on fully. It was just, like, someone who really loved me, and then they weren't there anymore.

Joe: That's right. 

Oona: And I don't think that happens in other situations where it's not, like, where people aren't deeply seeing you. 

Joe: Yeah. And definitely not as regularly as it happens. So you have all these people who are into perceiving people deeply, seeing you deeply.

I see that you see other people deeply. What is it like to, at your age, to go through the world? Do you even notice it, that you see things that most people don't see? And we've had a couple conversations where you're pretty clear on the fact that you're seeing patterns in people that they don't, they're not getting themselves.

Oona: When it's, like, a personal situation, like a conflict with my friends or like, it's a lot harder for me to see it there, whereas if it's just, like, a stranger who walks into, like, a restaurant. And I really love, like, trying to read people who walk into a restaurant, you know? Like, just based off of, like, them, I guess.

But it's something that I've wanted to be able to, like, to see in the personal situations, 'cause it gives you so much clarity about like, what part of this is me, what part of this is someone else, or like, yeah. But I think I don't notice that it's happening. It's not something where I'm like, "Oh, I'm different," 'cause I can, that never crosses my mind. It's just something that happens. Yeah. 

Joe: It happens. So I have a question for you about this. So I wanna tell a story and I wanna tell my favorite recent joke, which is, if you had a spirit animal, it would be a 9 millimeter bullet. So, you know, the other day you were really upset because you were going 62.9 miles an hour on your snowboard, and, like, the best boy was doing 63 and you were .1 behind. But that's a description of just how intense you take everything. And the other day you got an A minus in physics.

And you were really upset at the A minus in physics. And so I have two questions about that. One is what do you think drives you like this? So that's a question. But before you answer that question, I wanna tell the story and then ask you the other question too. So we're sitting there hanging out, you're doing homework or whatnot, and I tell you the story of my dad, about how when I was your age, almost exactly, I had been into trouble and I finally turned it around and I had all A's. I didn't even have an A minus, and I had all excellents, and I had one satisfactory plus for working well with others, which I still remember, which is weird. And I called up my dad and I said, "Oh, I have one satisfactory plus, and you said, "What an asshole." Is what you said about my dad. What an asshole, and I said to you, "Yeah, but who's being the asshole to you?" 'Cause you were beating yourself up so hard. So the two questions I have is what do you think drives you like that, and then also having heard that, like it seems like the self-abuse or whatever the, the being hard on yourself around it, not that you still don't want As, I know that, but the, the being hard on yourself has kind of dropped. So I'm just curious how, how that interacted and what makes you driven like this. 

Oona: Well, I think ever since I was really little, you've talked to me about like the voice in my head. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: So I've always known it's there, I guess, but I just didn't understand what form it took until you told that story, you know?

Where it's like this, yeah, that part of me is the asshole and like that's okay but it just like came to light once you said that like, the oh that, that's the voice in my head. That's what it looks like, you know? 'Cause I think you can tell me that someone's telling me I'm bad, but how do I know that really, you know?

Until like something like that's pointed out. And so I've just been sitting with it, like... and I went on a trip to Patagonia and I just, like I learned to love silence, and so I've just that's like, and I'm still wanna get an A. I'm still mad I got an A minus.

But I also realize that like the gravity of the situation is a lot less than in the moment. I don't know exactly why I'm driven like that. I think part of it is I grew up always wanting to be like my older sister. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: And trying to catch up. 

Joe: Right. 

Oona: But I think… 

Joe: Which is hard to do three years younger, and yet somehow you pulled it off.

Oona: Not, not fully. Let's give Esme some credit here. I like to learn new stuff. And I'm okay being bad at whatever it is. So like snowboarding, I'm not ever gonna go to the Olympics. I'm not amazing. But I'm okay being bad at it, you know? Like, I sail. I'm not a competitive sailor, but like I just love it, like I love learning.

And you taught me when I was really little that part of learning is being bad at it, like failing, like all of that stuff. And I don't know if that like fully equals like why I'm so hardcore about everything I do. But yeah. 

Joe: So you talked about Patagonia, and you've had this thing, I saw it the first time when you went backpacking for weeks on end without, you know, just like out in the wilderness.

And then you did Patagonia. And every time you do this, you come back like more mature. It's like, it's awesome to watch it. And now you've chosen to sail across, like old-timey sailboat across the Atlantic this summer. What is it that you get to do or learn or grow? Like, what's the thing you're learning there? What's the way you're growing? Outside of the skill, 'cause it seems like you're not doing it just to learn backpacking skills or sailing skills. Like, what is it that drives that? 

Oona: I think I really like the discomfort of it, of those like outside-y things. Like, there's a few parts to it, but I, I love, like, our everyday life is so comfortable, and I feel like when you're getting pushed, that's when you, like, disco, like, when you're being pushed, you're outside, you're stinky, like, everything, that's when, like, it's clear who you... Like, you just get to be with yourself in those moments.

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: And also, I think it, I love my family obviously, but when I get to be away from them, I take on a different role, you know? 'Cause I think we're all kinda set in the roles we play,

Joe: Yeah.

Oona: Inside of our family. So whenever I'm away, like, I'm not the girl who, like, hates doing the dishes, you know? I'm the one who has to take care of it because we all have to, like, do what we need to do, you know?

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: I think that plays a big role. Also, on all of these trips, there's just, like, a lot of time. You just you're spending it with yourself, and you're forced to. You don't have a distraction. You don't have your phone. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: And I learn this every single time I do a trip, and I forget it two months later.

Joe: Yeah. In all of these situations, including the sailing trip, you will be without your phone for an extended period, right? Which we used to do as a kid. You hated it then. 

Oona: I hated it then. 

Joe: But you also didn't grow up with a screen until you were, like, 10 or something like that. 

Oona: The Grinch was my first movie.

Joe: The Grinch was your first movie. Wow. 

Yeah, I just told that to... I was just at, having dinner with a couple who are these business people. They have two kids, and when they found out that you didn't have a screen until 10 or whatever it was, they were... Yeah, 

Oona: My biggest, like, shock card, 

Joe: like to throw down at people? Yeah.

You're raising your kids. How would you do... What would you do differently? 

Oona: I don't know if I can pinpoint exactly what I'd do differently yet, but I know from hearing how you guys raised, or how you guys grew up and were raised like, I know how different your guys' childhood was from mine, and I know that, like, how hard you guys worked to make that the case, and maybe mom started that one, but,

Joe: She did, absolutely.

Oona: But I kinda see it as, like, a process. Like, I'll work hard to raise my kids in a different way, and then, and it won't be perfect either, and then they'll, like, do the same, you know, on and on and on, and I don't think it'll ever be perfect. I don't think you're supposed to raise kids perfectly. I know that I'll do some things different just 'cause I know that you kind of have to. 

Joe: Yeah 

Oona: It's your job. 

Joe: Yeah. Right. There's, like, an assumed growth in it. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: You will grow, and therefore you will do something different.

Oona: It's like a process. 

Joe: Yeah. I had somebody tell me once that I really appreciated.

He said, "There is a way in which the younger generation is always more evolved than you are. There's always something that they get that you can't get, no matter how wise or how smart you are, because they're living in the newer world, the newer generation. And so you'll have more information. You'll have, like, all these neurological studies, and everything that happens, it'll make things different.

You'll learn about yourself. You'll overcome whatever trauma we gave to you, and the other thing is that you talked about, you've assumed change here. You talk about how the people in our community changed. Now let's get to the, let's get to the nitty-gritty. How have you seen Mom and I grow?

Oona: What I really appreciate is I still see you grow And I've seen... I mean, I've, like, when I was younger, you guys would fight pretty badly. I remember. And I, and now I see your fights, and they look totally different. Like you guys have worked so hard. 'Cause and you've also worked hard to teach me and Esme that, like, fighting is natural. If you don't fight, like, like that's part of life. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: But I've seen you be able to, like, handle your anger way better, which is like, I think we run the same anger gene a little bit. I've seen mom, like, just be so clear about her boundaries and drawing them and that was a big one. And I've seen how that's, like, affected your work, and I think how that's just, like, allowed this to become what it is, is that you guys work on yourself, and you know that you don't ever stop working on yourself. 

Joe: Oh, yeah. It's funny 'cause I always think about my life as we used to fight a ton, and then 

it got better and better and better and better, and then we had kids, and it got worse and worse and worse for a while. And then it got better and better and better again. Yeah, just the exhaustion and, like, there's this way in which, when you don't have kids and you have a fight, you can figure out how to do your thing, they do their thing but with kids like, no. If you don't do the thing, then they have to do the thing, or if you do the thing, then they have consequences. If you raise them this way, and it doesn't feel good to the other person, and everybody's exhausted and tired all the time. And yeah, there was a couple years there, I remember, when we were doing the remodel on the house, and you were young, and we weren't sleeping, and everything was tight. Yeah. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: And yeah, we both grew so much because of that, both of us. 

Oona: So much. 

Joe: Yeah. That's cool. And how about, how about you? How have you seen you have grown? 

Oona: I think it kind of reflects you working on your anger and, like I felt, I think I felt a lot of shame about how angry I get. I just, like, explode. I think it helped that you'd explode sometimes too, 'cause I knew that I was, I wasn't alone in it. But I think 'cause you understand where that comes from. Like, you understand what's behind it in a way mom or Esme doesn't really see. And so seeing that and seeing how you work with it and seeing that, yeah, that like I'm like it's natural, but yeah, I think you and mom, whenever you felt like you had made a mistake you would apologize to us, like you weren't, scared to show that.

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: Like it's natural. Everyone's gonna make a mistake. And that impacted my brain heavily. I also remember when I was really little, I was crying in my room and you came in, and you started crying with me. And I said, "Dad, you're fake crying. Get out of my room." And you were so hurt 'cause you were real crying. 

Joe: Ah. Yeah, that's like, that was my trauma, to be told not to cry or whatever. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: 'Cause I would cry a lot when I was younger and… 

Joe: Yeah

Oona: helped a lot 'cause, yeah. 

Joe: What's the opportunity that you think that you have because you were raised this way that a lot of kids don't have? 

Oona: I have a few things to say about this. But, like, for future and growth emotionally as well as, like, physically is just something that have come hand in hand to me, you know? Like, my mind growing, if that makes sense, is something that I was just raised thinking happens, you know? 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: Whereas I see a lot of the time it, like, a stunt happens. There's something that stunts, like, the emotional growth, and then it becomes like, "Oh, I'm going on my personal growth process or whatever." And I think for me and Esme, it's more just gonna be like that's what we always do.

Joe: That's cool. That makes me really happy. I'm like, "Whoo. Good job." I hope.

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: “Good job, Dad.” Just to think that, just to see that, oh, this is just how life works is amazing. 

Oona: And that's 'cause we were around so many people that were doing it. Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: And are doing it. 

Joe: I remember when my mom said to me, she's like, "Oh, people don't change." And she really believed that, right? Like, and that's why,

Oona: She didn't change. 

Joe: Yeah ... yeah, how much different your world is just to believe that people change, that you will change and can change.

Oona: Oh, that makes me really sad. 

Joe: Yeah. Me too. Yeah. There's another opportunity. You said two, so that was one. 

Oona: I think this is also about the voice in the head, and this is more about, like, in the last few months, but I just see 'cause I think, and I don't know how much of this is projection or not, but 'cause I'm identifying, like, that inside of myself, I'm seeing it so much in the kids around me and how hard, like, they are on themselves, you know?

And like if I'm hard on myself, like imagine if you guys like hadn't raised me with this idea. Like, it scares me honestly. Like it makes sense why there is so much like pain in kids my age. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah, that leads me to a great question. What do you think the kids in your generation need that they're not getting? Obviously we live in this one particular part of the world, but… 

Oona: Yeah. I'd say boundaries. I think, and I think there's like aspects to that. There's like, the trust that you can give a kid and like, when you're, when you guys trust me with something and I feel how much you trust me with it, it makes it so that I never wanna break that, you know?

Like, yeah, it's invisible, but it's something that I care so much about. Like, if you guys hadn't trusted me like this, I would have thrown a few parties in our house by now. 

And I think when I see my friends who, like, sneak around their parents, who, like, lie to do things and stuff like that 'cause their parents are so strict on them, don't trust them, it just creates such a different relationship, you know? And yeah, it's hard, like, chicken-and-egg situation. Did they trust? Who broke the trust first? But I think, not being a parent, but still, as a, from a child's perspective, I think it's the parent's job. And I think the only way that you know that you can give that trust is by holding boundaries, you know? That's why I think boundaries are so important.

Joe: Yeah. It's interesting 'cause I do feel like if you don't teach your kid how to be trustworthy, they won't be. And so teaching them how to be trustworthy isn't telling them what to do all the time. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: Or criticizing them all the time, but it is an interesting thing.

But I don't think most parents think of it that way, as like, "How, how do I teach my kid to be trustworthy?" And then, oh, the way to do that is to, is to trust them, is to let them know. And there was another thing that we used to do with you a lot, or I did, and I think this was maybe more me than Mom. But I would say, "I'm nagging you. I don't want to nag you. How can we exist together without me nagging you?" 

Oona: Yeah. I remember that. 

Joe: Because as soon as I'm nagging you, I feel like I'm not trusting you and so that was kind of part of my... And it also just sucked. It felt so bad to nag.

Oona: For both of us. 

Joe: Yeah, for both exactly. 

Oona: You nag, I don't wanna do it anymore. Like, it was a whole situation, yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. When you think about your generation what do you think is, I don't know, opportunities, risks? Like, what do you think about your generation and where you're headed and what's needed and what's going on? Do you have any just thoughts on that?

Oona: I have a lot of thoughts on this. 

Joe: I think there's, like, a lot of parents who are like, "Oh my gosh, my kids are…" 

Oona: I worry a little about the phones. I know that, but I felt like the struggle with it, and I still do. Like, it's just so much easier to scroll, like I have a thought and it scares me the most when I'm like scrolling on my phone and I'm like, it's like I'm proud of myself for turning on a TV show instead of scrolling. And that worries me, like I'm wasting so much of my time. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: And it's like a, like it messes up like your dopamine and then, like I'm really worried about that, I think. 

Joe: How many kids do you think are worried about it for themselves?

Oona: Everybody.

Joe: That there's some sort of internal dialogue where they're like, "I know this isn't good."

Oona: But it's like a shame. Like, and I feel it with myself. It's like you're shameful about it, so of course you're gonna keep doing it. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: And all the tools that we have to stop doing it they feel like parents, like try, like it feel, it doesn't feel right, I guess. I don't know. So I'm worried about that a little bit. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: Obviously I'm worried about, like, our environment and… 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: I don't really know if this answered your question. 

Joe: Yeah. It did, I just, yeah, I was just wondering how do you think your, your friends view the generation? Do they feel like we're stoked, we're screwed, we're… 

Oona: We're doomed. 

Joe: We're doomed. Yeah. My generation felt the same thing, by the way. 

Oona: But social media really, like, pushes that.

Joe: Yeah, it really does. Last question. One of the things that's happening in our world right now is that there's a lot of notoriety and success happening. You came with me to LA and, you know, witnessed me doing some podcasts, and we're now being, like, recognized at the coffee shop.

And there's just more of everything going on in the world, in our world. The two questions is, what's that like for you? And then the other question is, how do you see us dealing with it? Like, how are we doing? Like, from your perspective, like, how are mom and I doing with, like, this success that's happening?

Oona: I see you struggle with it. It's not... i've seen mom struggle with the notoriety. I've seen that. And I've seen you struggle with, like, the idea of, like, success and the idea of... this is... You want... you're driven by a want to help people, and that's so clear, and I see you struggle with the other aspects of that.

And it's been a learning process, I'd say. It's something in the last few months that's changed you and mom the most, I'd say. 'Cause it's... I mean, it happened so... I know it's been happening for a while, but feels like boom it's happened.

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: And I also see how like nothing makes you and mom uncomfortable except for this. I get uncomfortable before you guys make me uncomfortable on purpose. Which is interesting 'cause I hardly see you guys uncomfortable.

Joe: Yeah. How have you seen us change around it? So you're saying that we were wrestling with this or struggling with this. Do you see any difference between where we were four months ago, six months ago, and now?

Oona: I think you're a lot more open to it, not about it. 

Joe: Yeah. Yeah. 

Oona: Especially you, I'd say. Like I don't know if I have the exact words for it, but you, like you know that it's okay to be successful, you know? Or yeah. 

Joe: Yeah, I think for me, my experience was, and you can correct me if you think that this is off, my experience was that the most uncomfortable thing is when somebody comes up to us in public.

Right? That's, I think is what you got to see too. Come up to us in public and have just that adoration, have that like, "Oh my gosh, thank you so much." Like thinking we're special kind of thing. And what was happening for me at the beginning was I don't, like, I don't, don't put that on me, or like, "Hey, can you just see me as a person?" kind of thing. And then one day at the coffee shop, somebody came up to me, and I just saw how touched he was, and I was like, "Oh, what if I actually allow that to hit me all the way? What if I allow how touched he is to touch me?" And so, it was interesting 'cause you weren't there, but Grandma was there.

And Mom was there, and Esme was there, and he comes over, and I stop, and I just, like, fully, 'cause I'd thought about doing this, I fully feel the whole thing, and I get misty. He gets misty. There's this, like, sweet connection. 

Oona: Mm-hmm. 

Joe: And I'm like, "Well, let me introduce you two," and everybody had left. Everybody was like, "I'm out of there." With that discomfort you're talking about, just, like, walked out the room. 

Oona: No. 

Joe: And I was like, "Oh, this feels a lot better." 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: For, to actually just let it in and let it touch me it felt a lot better. And it's still, it's a still work in progress, but it feels almost like a prayer when I do it. Like, it feels like it's a, maybe a surrendering or a, like a, like an appreciation when I allow it. 

Oona: Like something bigger than… 

Joe: Exactly, yeah. Yeah. Something bigger. That's exactly... and that's, that's the work that I'm doing on it. 

Oona: That's what I see, yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Oona: You had a lot better words for it.

Joe: Yeah. I don't know. Yours is probably just fine, more open to it. Yeah. 

Oona: In my personal life, though, I actually have a story. 

Joe: Yeah, please. 

Oona: So on Patagonia, there's this guy who, like, who knew, an only person in my actual life who knows what you guys do, I'd say. Not actual life, but, like, school life. And he knew what you did, like, a little bit, and he listened to your podcast when we got, when we got home, and he sent me, like, a screenshot. And he was like, "This is what your dad said, and this is why what you were doing was wrong," from what your Dad said. And I found it ... 

Joe: Oh, was he trying to rizz you? Is that what was happening? 

Oona: Don't say rizz. 

Joe: Okay. Was he flirting with, don't say rizz.

Oona: You'll have to ask him. 

Joe: If I ask him, I'm gonna tell him, like, "That's a horrible way to flirt, not rizz, a girl." Like, talk about her Dad and then tell her what to do? This is horrible.

Oona: Okay. I found it really funny, but I was also really offended. I was like, "How dare you?" Like, that's, like, you don't know him. But yeah. That's the only time it's really affected me in my personal life. 

Joe: Yeah. Good. I'm glad that's the case. 

Oona: Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. Anything you wanna say before we go? Anything you wanna say to me? Anything.

Oona: I love you.

Joe: I love you too. 

Oona: Thanks for listening to The Art of Accomplishment, hosted by Oona Hudson and Joe Hudson, produced by, 

Joe: One World Media 

Oona: Edited by Charlie Garcia. If you liked this episode, share it with a friend. My dad will be happy. 

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